Charging Problem, Generator or Rectifier??

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Re: Charging Problem, Generator or Rectifier??

Postby kwakbiker » Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:20 pm

Could also try electrex for the stator if m&p keep letting down
Life is like a kawasaki airbox growl.....loud and fruity

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Re: Charging Problem, Generator or Rectifier??

Postby stooshie73 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:09 pm

philbut wrote: I bought a spare loom from a breakers and cut / soldered the connector off. Kawasaki don't do a repair set for that connector and I wanted to do a proper job.


The wiring loom is a good idea, I was thinking or buying a waterproof male - female connector instead of soldering the wires as I would fear a joint would seperate during use and thought a connector in between the wiring loom and the donor plug would be more reliable ( That's not a slight in your soldering technique it is more about the level that my own soldering is at :D )

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Re: Charging Problem, Generator or Rectifier??

Postby stooshie73 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:28 am

Saw this on the WEMOTO site and thought it would be useful info..................

What is a Regulator/Rectifier
The regulator rectifier is a combined unit. It does the rectifying part as well the regulation part. It is part of a battery charging system. It usuallty gets an AC power feed from the stator coil of the generator (alternator). Most modern regulator rectifiers and Stators form a three phase system, so there are three wires coming from the stator feeding into the regulator rectifier. The regulator rectifier then rectifies the voltage; that is it turns the voltage from AC into an undulating DC. The voltage is then regulated; the voltage being limited to a maximum of about 14.5 volts and feeds this regulated DC out to the battery. There are some single phase, regulator rectifiers as well which perform a similar function but there are only two wires coming from the stator into the regulator rectifier which is then fed to the battery in the same way as the three phase system. Why are there two different systems? Three phase is more efficient and single phase are cheaper to produce.

Types of Regulator/Rectifiers

There are two main types of alternator that are fitted to most bikes, each requiring a different type of regulator rectifier.

1) Permanent Magnet Rotor alternator (PMR) - This has permanent magnets that revolve with the engine (rotor), either inside or around a set of wound coils (stator) to produce power. These come in various shapes and sizes. Some have two output wires (single phase), but most have three (three phase).

2) Field Control Type (FCT) - This has a 'field' or 'exciter' coil that is in place of the fixed magnets. When supplied with power from the regulator this becomes magnetised. Some types have this coil spinning inside the output 'phase' coils to give power, and will have carbon brush connections. Others have a stationary field coil, stationary phase coils and have a metal rotor spinning between the two, and need no brushes. The amount of power supplied to the field coil from the regulator decides how much output the alternator will give.

How to test the Regulator

Check the battery voltage, with the engine not running. Start the bike (increase the rpm's up a little), the voltage should now be a couple of volts more than the original battery voltage. Check both voltages (running and not running) at battery terminals.

What can go wrong with it

If yours does fail. Before going to the time and bother and expense of replacing one, it is prudent to consider that there are usually contributory factors to a failure. You should conduct a thorough inspection of all other parts of the electrical system and verify that all components are in good working order and that the regulator was correctly mounted to allow dissipation of heat produced. You could also perform some basic postmortem checks on the regulator/rectifier itself, and attempt to determine what has failed, internally if you have the necessary test equipment.

Total failure

Total failure does not usually mean that every part inside the unit died at the same time. All of the parts share a common ground or hot connection; if the unit tests out totally dead, then this internal connection could have failed. This is typically due to either a manufacturing defect, overheating or metal fatigue from too many heating and cooling cycles. A failed connection can cause any of the observed failure modes, so keep that in mind: just because the device doesn't test out totally dead, doesn't mean that it wasn't defective or simply overheated one too many times.

Failed diodes

If this happens, your battery will stop being charged, the lights become progressively more dim, and eventually the engine will stop. First look for a short or bad connection to the alternator stator coils. A bad connection can cause some serious voltage spikes, which can destroy diodes. Check also for a bad battery connection and any oxide build up on the terminals and connectors. A shorted battery or reversed terminals could cause the diodes to draw too much current and burn out. These symptoms could also point to stator failure so check the coil resistances and or output voltage if your meter has an AC range, to eliminate this.

Failed Shunt Regulator

If this happens, your headlight may become very bright and then blow. Your battery may have boiled dry also.

If the regulator burned out, check your battery connections, if they are loose or corroded the regulator has nowhere to route the output and so must get rid of the power produced in the form of heat. Also, make sure that all of your running lights are working; remember, the regulator sinks excess power, and generates a lot of heat in the process. If all of the lights aren't working, that's more heat for the regulator to get rid of.

PHILBUTT I think a short on one of the phases like it says there caused a SPIKE and burn out of the connection. :arrow:

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Re: Charging Problem, Generator or Rectifier??

Postby stooshie73 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:30 am

I have purchased a spare donor wiring loom and next week the Reg/Rec will be bought. (money,s tight because mrs stooshie is having another wee biker :P )

In the mean time this has happened to the bike.

Image
Image

So my idle hands got itchy and now my clocks have been adorned with T10 blue 4LED bulbs and headlight graced with a xenon HID bulb.

Should have the Reg/Rec next Saturday ,off on friday and bike is getting detailed from top to botton, no nook or cranny missed. Reg/Rec will be fitted and a Saturday shakedown is planned and all going well a runout on Sunday. Rest and be thankful here I come. :arrow:

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Re: Charging Problem, Generator or Rectifier??

Postby dantimp » Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:27 pm

Eventually got my Stator and fitted it. I have just done a voltage check across the battery, when warmed and idleing it was showing approx 15V, when I reved it to 4K it dropped to about 14.2V. The battery I have is goosed (acorrding to my Optimate), would a goosed battery cause this to be high.

I am going to get a new battery today / tomorrow because this one is knackered anyway, but would be interested in your feedback.

Cheers

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Re: Charging Problem, Generator or Rectifier??

Postby philbut » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:08 pm

Seems a bit backward doesn't it? Have you changed the reg/rec already? My Dullville was doing that before I swapped out the reg/rec for a new one. That sorted the problem. You are meant to check the charging circit with a fully charged batter though, so battery condition must have an effect on the meter readings. A battery that is falt will pull a far higher current, and thus cause the voltage to drop. Maybe at tick over your alternator could not prvide enough current to charge the battery, hence you did no see any voltage drop, but at higher RPM, the power output was sufficient to charge the battery, thus you saw a voltage drop? :?

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Re: Charging Problem, Generator or Rectifier??

Postby stooshie73 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:44 pm

Sunny Day today and reg/rec came thrugh the post so it was off to the lock-up.

Image
Image

Removed the spade connectors one by one and cleaned them,crimped them to create better grip, smothered them in dielectric grease and re-inserted into donor plug from donor loom purchased previously on flea bay.

Cut bad wire and connector far enough to find good wire and fitted new spade connector that can be found at any good auto electric shop for pennies.

Fitted plug to newly installed reg/rec and hey presto NOTHING ha ha only kidding, sweet as a nut, battery had a lovely full charge and bike ran smooth.

On reflection this has been going for a while but down to my virginal newness to bikes and biking I put it down to the cold weather . :P I know better now.................


Next step is for the whole bike to be cleaned and lubed from top to toe and out for a shakedown. :P

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Re: Charging Problem, Generator or Rectifier??

Postby stooshie73 » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:33 pm

Image

Nice blue clocks that complete the repair job. My bike must have been going down with this fault for a while because now there is a noticeable increase of power when testing the bike today. :D

I will keep you all posted of the bikes progress after the repair. :P

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Re: Charging Problem, Generator or Rectifier??

Postby dantimp » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:52 pm

New battery today, charging system seems to be working spot on now. :)

So just to add in case anyone is wondering in the future, I changed to generator which seems to have fixed the problem. I diagnosed this by unplugging the 3 pin connector on the left side of the bike. Tested for continuity between each of the connectors (Generator Block not the block to the Loom) to the engine block. I had continuity which you should not have.

Also MOT'd this afternoon. So very happy bunny, Bring on the Egg Run Sunday, Pray for nice weather :)

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