Alternative Rear Brake Calliper / Master Cylinder ?

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Alternative Rear Brake Calliper / Master Cylinder ?

Postby ZZ-R600 » Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:15 pm

Howdy guys :D

Right on me ZZ-R 6 D1 was riding the bike one day, all was good, then the bike felt like it ran outta steam, oh no I thought, am gonna brake down, so I stopped and engine seamed fine, hmmm so I tried to limp it home.

I was sat in traffic and in neutral and realised I couldnt rock the bike back or forth, the rear brake was on solid :?:

When I got the bike back home on the drive it had free'd itself but now when you press the rear pedal theres loads of travel but no brake, the fluid level hasn't changed so its well weird, but the paint on the top of the calliper has all cracked.

SO I don't know if the rear brake calliper is fooked or if its the rear master cylinder ? probably both, which brings me to my question..

Has anyone used an aftermarket rear brake on the ZZ-R 600 ? or do I have to buy another one off evilbay ?

Cheers in advance.

Matt :P
MODEL: ZZ-R 600, 1990 D1, Blue/Silver
WHEELS: Gold Wheels
TYRES: Michelin Pilot Road
FINAL DRIVE: (15/45) Gold Tsubaki X-Ring Chain, Chrome JT Sprockets, Blue TastyNuts Sprocket Nuts
BRAKES: Kagizume Wavy Discs, 99 Fireblade Caliper Upgrade, EBC Double-H Sinstered Pads, Goodridge Race Set-Up Stainless Steel Brake Lines
BODYWORK: Mirror Polished Frame, Mirror Polished Engine Casings, H.I.D. Xenon Blue Bulb Upgrade
PERFORMANCE UPGRADES: Nexxus Exhaust


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Re: Alternative Rear Brake Calliper / Master Cylinder ?

Postby froggy_french » Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:12 am

Matt, as anybody who is a regular reader on these forums will tell you, I am an incompetent f*ckwit when it comes to wielding the spanners :(

However, it does seem to me that there are 2 possible reasons for your back brake to seize solid on you... the first is simply hot metal on hot metal which can tend to seize when the surfaces start to cool i.e. as you sat at the lights. The second reason could be that the master cylinder has "jammed" on for some obscure reason.

So, a couple of questions, what are the pads like and when where they changed? Is there any chance that they were down to the metal and thus we are looking at scenario one??

The paint cracking is certainly indicating "big heat" at some stage!!

The problem is, of course, if you go out and buy aftermarket or fleabay, it is still unclear as to whether it is the master cylinder OR the caliper that has caused the problem and you could end up throwing good money after bad.

Personally, and given the love you lavish on your zzr, I reckon you start with a full strip down of the master cylinder and caliper, change all the seals and renew the brake fluid and, possibly fit braided whilst you are getting down and dirty!!

This would prove a cheaper and safer option than fleabay or buying aftermarket and you would be sure that the work has been done properly...

Good Luck with your problem and I am sure zzr-lad, or somebody else more mechanical than I, will be along very soon to offer a more proficient spannering solution to your predicament :P

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Re: Alternative Rear Brake Calliper / Master Cylinder ?

Postby zzr lon » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:39 am

sounds like a seized rear calliper as its got hot you will need to strip it down and clean the pistons plus new seal kit plus new pads as they have been cooked too its reasonably easy depending on how seized the pistons are

if your not mechanically minded which it sounds like your not get it done professionally as there quit important things :P


it may well be cheaper to get one of ebay calliper £20ish and just fit it with new fluid as all the incured cost will end up costing a lot more

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Re: Alternative Rear Brake Calliper / Master Cylinder ?

Postby ZZ-R600 » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:58 am

Cheers for the input guys, much appreciated :)

I never thought to check the rear pads to be honest, I was pretty sure there was plenty of meat on them, but it makes sense if there isnt and it kinda welded together.

Also I thought with the rear calliper paint all being cracked I assumed that it may have had brake fluid all over it yet I couldnt see any evidence of this, your suggestion of heat cracking the paint makes perfect sense :D

I am pretty mechanically minded zzr lon :lol: and recently did this to the Zed's front brakes as only one piston was working in the callipers :o

Image

Image

Thats how it is now, gonna give the pistons a good clean and get some red rubber grease behind the seals and reassemble, should be problem solved then, I was getting a lot of juddering from the front and when I saw only one piston working I decided I would strip the front callipers.

What I really wanted to know was if there was a performance upgrade for the rear calliper ? see on the front I have as follows :

99 Fireblade Nissin Callipers
Goodridge Lines
01 Yamaha R1 Master Cylinder
01 Yamaha R1 Reservoir
01 Yamaha R1 5-span Adjuster Lever

The original master cylinder was rubbish, we would bleed it and it would be ok.. for 24hrs then spongy again next day so we junked all the standard system and went first class, am gonna be the first to take pics of a 200kg ZZ-R doin a vertical stoppy :twisted:

So the fact that I upgraded the front, can I say put on a R1 rear brake calliper or keep it Nissin and get a Blade one ? or is my only option to rebuild the original master cylinder with a seal kit and get a new rear calliper ?

Cheers again guys.

Matt :)
MODEL: ZZ-R 600, 1990 D1, Blue/Silver
WHEELS: Gold Wheels
TYRES: Michelin Pilot Road
FINAL DRIVE: (15/45) Gold Tsubaki X-Ring Chain, Chrome JT Sprockets, Blue TastyNuts Sprocket Nuts
BRAKES: Kagizume Wavy Discs, 99 Fireblade Caliper Upgrade, EBC Double-H Sinstered Pads, Goodridge Race Set-Up Stainless Steel Brake Lines
BODYWORK: Mirror Polished Frame, Mirror Polished Engine Casings, H.I.D. Xenon Blue Bulb Upgrade
PERFORMANCE UPGRADES: Nexxus Exhaust


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Re: Alternative Rear Brake Calliper / Master Cylinder ?

Postby jimbo3459 » Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:24 pm

ZZ-R600 wrote:What I really wanted to know was if there was a performance upgrade for the rear calliper ?


No. You really don't want to go this way. When you are braking hard with the front brake, there is hardly any weight on the back wheel. It's then very easy to lock up the back wheel. IMO having a pathetic back brake (that works) is far better than having something that might be a bit too keen. This is the reason that performance pads are not recommended for the rear.

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Re: Alternative Rear Brake Calliper / Master Cylinder ?

Postby ZZ-R600 » Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:37 pm

Hi jimbo :D

That makes perfect sense.

I am not looking for an aftermarket one for stronger braking just a unit thats not 100 years old :) and something that isnt gonna lock up on me again like this one has :evil:

I'd much rather put a 8 year old rear calliper and master cylinder on the bike than one 18 years old if you know what I mean :P I just dunno if theres owt out there which will fit ?
MODEL: ZZ-R 600, 1990 D1, Blue/Silver
WHEELS: Gold Wheels
TYRES: Michelin Pilot Road
FINAL DRIVE: (15/45) Gold Tsubaki X-Ring Chain, Chrome JT Sprockets, Blue TastyNuts Sprocket Nuts
BRAKES: Kagizume Wavy Discs, 99 Fireblade Caliper Upgrade, EBC Double-H Sinstered Pads, Goodridge Race Set-Up Stainless Steel Brake Lines
BODYWORK: Mirror Polished Frame, Mirror Polished Engine Casings, H.I.D. Xenon Blue Bulb Upgrade
PERFORMANCE UPGRADES: Nexxus Exhaust


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Club Racer
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:35 am
Location: England
Geographic Location: West Yorkshire
My Bike Make: Kawasaki
Engine Size: 0
Model: ZZR

Re: Alternative Rear Brake Calliper / Master Cylinder ?

Postby jimbo3459 » Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:31 pm

Hi

In that case I'd have a look on fleabay for something that's serviceable. In a couple of minutes I found this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/KAWASAKI-ZZR600-ZZR-600-D-REAR-BRAKE-CALIPER_W0QQitemZ370115062583QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Motorcycle_Parts?hash=item370115062583&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

A snip at £20 + postage. If you can find one that is identical to your caliper you'll be able to keep your old caliper as a source of spares.

Good luck :P

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Posts: 101
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Re: Alternative Rear Brake Calliper / Master Cylinder ?

Postby ZZ-R600 » Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:42 pm

Thanks Jimbo :D :P
MODEL: ZZ-R 600, 1990 D1, Blue/Silver
WHEELS: Gold Wheels
TYRES: Michelin Pilot Road
FINAL DRIVE: (15/45) Gold Tsubaki X-Ring Chain, Chrome JT Sprockets, Blue TastyNuts Sprocket Nuts
BRAKES: Kagizume Wavy Discs, 99 Fireblade Caliper Upgrade, EBC Double-H Sinstered Pads, Goodridge Race Set-Up Stainless Steel Brake Lines
BODYWORK: Mirror Polished Frame, Mirror Polished Engine Casings, H.I.D. Xenon Blue Bulb Upgrade
PERFORMANCE UPGRADES: Nexxus Exhaust


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Road Racer
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:59 am
Location: Canada
Geographic Location: Toronto
My Bike Make: Kawasaki
Engine Size: 600
Model: ZX600D1

Re: Alternative Rear Brake Calliper / Master Cylinder ?

Postby CHAOS » Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:43 pm

You can always fashion either an ZZR600E or ZX6-R model single piston rear (including the recent ZX-6RR and 636) use a rear caliper that is 100% interchangeable with the E

http://www.zx6e.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4446


BTW: I do not recommend fitting braided lines on the rear,it locks-up waaaaayyyyy to easy.
The difficult we do immediately, the impossible takes a little longer.

Club Racer
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Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:19 pm

Re: Alternative Rear Brake Calliper / Master Cylinder ?

Postby ZZ-R600 » Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:52 pm

Now THATS what am talkin about :D :D :D

Big thank you CHAOS, question answered :P
MODEL: ZZ-R 600, 1990 D1, Blue/Silver
WHEELS: Gold Wheels
TYRES: Michelin Pilot Road
FINAL DRIVE: (15/45) Gold Tsubaki X-Ring Chain, Chrome JT Sprockets, Blue TastyNuts Sprocket Nuts
BRAKES: Kagizume Wavy Discs, 99 Fireblade Caliper Upgrade, EBC Double-H Sinstered Pads, Goodridge Race Set-Up Stainless Steel Brake Lines
BODYWORK: Mirror Polished Frame, Mirror Polished Engine Casings, H.I.D. Xenon Blue Bulb Upgrade
PERFORMANCE UPGRADES: Nexxus Exhaust


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